Ok, 2 days ago, I posted a question and lots of people answered saying that:
[#1]. the Church does not say that anyone (including Judas) is in Hell right now.
[#2]. the Church does not say that a majority will go to Hell.
I am quite surprised by these answers and I still dont agree with them (or maybe I just misunderstood them).
For [#1]:
-During the Ex Ecclesia Nulla Sallus period, the church's teaching of the doctrine implied that Jew, Greek, Schismatic, Heretic all cant share in salvation, so the Church indirectly implied that those who died during the period went to Hell.
-What did the term "let him be anathema" mean in all those Council of Trent documents. Is there any similarity between the "let him be anathema" and the "let him be accursed" regarding the angel that preaches another gospel? Do both of them mean "cursed, but not going to Hell?".
-I saw a Jan Hus documentary and in it, during the excommunicating they were saying: "Let God condemn u to Hell" or something similar.
-Also, what about Luther? I heard the MHFM people call him the biggest heretic ever and needless to say, he was excommunicated.
-In one of the churches in Vatican City, there is a statue of the Virgin Mother casting Luther and Calvin (or was it Hus) out of Heaven, so it implies that they could have gone to no other place than Hell.
-Some top apologists, including the MHFM people and Robert Sungenius say that Luther and reformers are in Hell.
-If a person died in front of the Pope 2 seconds after committing a blatant set of mortal sins, would the Pope say that person is in Hell?
For [#2]:
-The Bible says in several places, such as regarding the narrow gate and the narrow way, how most people will end up in Hell. If Jesus said those words 2000 years ago, it must imply that in the 2000 years since, most would have gone to Hell. Why would the Church say something so contrary to this, especially in that for the first 1960 years of the Church's existence, it held fast to Ex Ecclesia Nulla Sallus? [Including Ex-Cathedra from some popes].
-The Traditionalist groups almost universally hold that a majority will go to Hell. One of the websites even cited an apparition of a recently passed away bishop that said in that same hour 30,000 died and only 2 got to Heaven and 3 got to Purgatory, despite Europe being almost 100% religious at the time. If almost all Traditionalist groups hold that majority will be lost, it must imply that in previous generations, the Church taught such.
-I read somewhere that one of the missionaries (St Francis Xavier or someone) decided against his plans and decided to go to China instead, because he believed that "unbaptized people [infants included] all went to Hell".
-I read somewhere that one of the Fatima visionaries said to another Fatima visionary that WWI will begin soon and "almost all will go to Hell".
-I might have read somewhere that the apparition at Fatima predicted most will go to Hell. If it did such, the Church would not have classified the apparition as "worthy of belief".
-I thought I read another thread the other day about whether most people are in Hell and I am pretty sure many said that most are in Hell.
Other questions:
-Do the Orthodox churches have a similar stance that they dont know who are in Hell and dont know if the majority are in Hell?
-Can we call the Fundamentalist Fire and Brimstone people "uncharitable" and what is the name of the type sin which involves one being uncharitable like the Fundamentalists?
-People perceive Christianity as being intolerant. Is this because Fundamentalists rather than Catholics are interacting with them?
I would like to see some comments on this. I do concede I may have misunderstood some of the comments of that other thread.
Thanks!!
[#1]. the Church does not say that anyone (including Judas) is in Hell right now.
[#2]. the Church does not say that a majority will go to Hell.
I am quite surprised by these answers and I still dont agree with them (or maybe I just misunderstood them).
For [#1]:
-During the Ex Ecclesia Nulla Sallus period, the church's teaching of the doctrine implied that Jew, Greek, Schismatic, Heretic all cant share in salvation, so the Church indirectly implied that those who died during the period went to Hell.
-What did the term "let him be anathema" mean in all those Council of Trent documents. Is there any similarity between the "let him be anathema" and the "let him be accursed" regarding the angel that preaches another gospel? Do both of them mean "cursed, but not going to Hell?".
-I saw a Jan Hus documentary and in it, during the excommunicating they were saying: "Let God condemn u to Hell" or something similar.
-Also, what about Luther? I heard the MHFM people call him the biggest heretic ever and needless to say, he was excommunicated.
-In one of the churches in Vatican City, there is a statue of the Virgin Mother casting Luther and Calvin (or was it Hus) out of Heaven, so it implies that they could have gone to no other place than Hell.
-Some top apologists, including the MHFM people and Robert Sungenius say that Luther and reformers are in Hell.
-If a person died in front of the Pope 2 seconds after committing a blatant set of mortal sins, would the Pope say that person is in Hell?
For [#2]:
-The Bible says in several places, such as regarding the narrow gate and the narrow way, how most people will end up in Hell. If Jesus said those words 2000 years ago, it must imply that in the 2000 years since, most would have gone to Hell. Why would the Church say something so contrary to this, especially in that for the first 1960 years of the Church's existence, it held fast to Ex Ecclesia Nulla Sallus? [Including Ex-Cathedra from some popes].
-The Traditionalist groups almost universally hold that a majority will go to Hell. One of the websites even cited an apparition of a recently passed away bishop that said in that same hour 30,000 died and only 2 got to Heaven and 3 got to Purgatory, despite Europe being almost 100% religious at the time. If almost all Traditionalist groups hold that majority will be lost, it must imply that in previous generations, the Church taught such.
-I read somewhere that one of the missionaries (St Francis Xavier or someone) decided against his plans and decided to go to China instead, because he believed that "unbaptized people [infants included] all went to Hell".
-I read somewhere that one of the Fatima visionaries said to another Fatima visionary that WWI will begin soon and "almost all will go to Hell".
-I might have read somewhere that the apparition at Fatima predicted most will go to Hell. If it did such, the Church would not have classified the apparition as "worthy of belief".
-I thought I read another thread the other day about whether most people are in Hell and I am pretty sure many said that most are in Hell.
Other questions:
-Do the Orthodox churches have a similar stance that they dont know who are in Hell and dont know if the majority are in Hell?
-Can we call the Fundamentalist Fire and Brimstone people "uncharitable" and what is the name of the type sin which involves one being uncharitable like the Fundamentalists?
-People perceive Christianity as being intolerant. Is this because Fundamentalists rather than Catholics are interacting with them?
I would like to see some comments on this. I do concede I may have misunderstood some of the comments of that other thread.
Thanks!!